Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the JOMOcast. I'm your host, Christina Crook. Join us as we sit down with leading founders, creators and thought leaders to learn how they embrace the joy of missing out. These guests are choosing to digitally detox and usher balance into their busy lives. Let's dive right in.

You're in nature right now, unless you're listening on a smartphone in the park or the woods. That probably sounds strange, but it's true. Wherever you are on earth, the environment around you is inseparably linked to the air, water, and living things that make up the vast, complex ecosystem of our planet.

Even if you've got a climate controlled house, you're working with or against the heating and cooling of the sun and [00:01:00] sky. Everything you eat was born or grown in the earth. We are in, on, and of the earth forever. There's no getting around it. Maybe that's why the way we feel about ourselves and our society tends to reflect the way we treat the earth.

And as things have gotten harder and more complicated in the world, it's gotten harder for many of us to love ourselves and the planet and the ways we should. My next guest has some powerful lessons to share on that front. For 14 years, lindsay Coulter was the Suzuki foundation's queen of green, the creator of newsletters and blog posts for the foundation under that name, with a readership of tens of thousands.

Through her unique blend of spirituality, evidence-based science and practical action. Lindsey has helped educate a generation on the immediate impactful ways they can come to terms with their feelings, fears, and [00:02:00] goals for the environment, and how to effect positive change at every scale. Lindsay comes to the JOMOcast to share her philosophical, spiritual, and practical lessons for how to take on stewardship for the earth and our fellow humans and find our own joy as we do.

So I hope you enjoy my conversation with Lindsay Coulter.

I just want to welcome you to the podcast. 

Lindsay: Thank you so much for having me today. 

Christina: In your own words, Lindsay, what is it that you do? Who is the queen of green? 

Lindsay: Yeah, it's a lofty title. I've been at the David Suzuki foundation for over 13 years and the queen of green was pitched, out of my own coming to work every day and listening to, that there's radon the silent killer in our homes and flame retardants and mothers, breast milk and whale blubber, and coming to work every day, thinking about, reading all these reports and this [00:03:00] scientifically valid information about the state of the world. And I thought what can I do about this? And so quickly I started to plan my own green wedding started to make my own laundry soap and just tried to think about, what small sane actions I can do to stay in this world and make a positive contribution. 

Christina: And you became the queen of green. 

Lindsay: Yes, the queen green was launched in '08 and really about really started from a place of, daily tips and, the top five things you can do to have a green vacation.

My favorite green cleaning recipes and it's evolved, it's come a long way as I realized that it really comes down to people and our relationships with people and the planet, of course. And then more recently, I think since 2014, looking at like, how does our relationship with ourself matter in the scope of our environmental footprint?

Christina: Yeah. When I read your work, it seems to me that in addition to [00:04:00] considering our environment, you're really seeking to help people be whole, to be whole people in the world and thinking about the way that they're impacting, not only the environment, but one another, like the entire ecosystem in which we live, which is a really beautiful mission.

Obviously people can see lots of your life and the ways that you're engaging online. I'm curious to know, and this kind of has become a recurring question I ask people on the podcast, what is something people would not know if they followed you on the internet? 

Lindsay: Perhaps that I struggle like everybody else with, to buy an electric car or not to get solar panels on the top of my house, how to talk to my husband about the plastic produce bags he brings home. It's all real, and that's why it's so relevant. And a lot of these posts, everything, on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook are all my own struggles and challenges and seeking for a place to show up, where we can learn from each other, but it's not because I've perfected it.

There's a lot of things that I'm very [00:05:00] proud of and lots of things that really still bother me. 

Christina: Yeah, I appreciate that candidness. I think so much of what I seek to do is try to pull back the layers. I'm not particularly good at it myself in terms of, revealing vulnerabilities and challenges online.

But I feel like the more that we're able to do that, the more that our online space and our offline spaces reflect one another, then the better off we'll all be. How online would you say you are in terms of your work? Like how much time are you spending, like percentage wise of your day online? 

Lindsay: I think too much.

 I manage my own social media handles for work. Queen of green, that is me. There is no ghost writer or volunteers behind the scenes managing Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. All the posts I do. Sometimes I can find it, it's really draining. There's a lot of information out, and it feels like it's going only one way.

So over time I've developed some other deeper practices and leadership programs, as I found, it's been just [00:06:00] hugely valuable that people, yeah, sure. They need to know where to find a rain barrel in Winnipeg and how to avoid plastic produce bags at the grocery store. But also that people are looking for places to have conversations and show up, as you say, as your authentic self.

 Let's have the conversation about what if none of this matters or how do you even start a conversation with your family or your neighbor or anyone that, I'm, I want to take a vow not to fly this year. So looking for those other deeper places. That can happen online. It takes you to another layer, but not into the capacities of where, you're actually let's say sitting in circle or watching people's body language and actually going through all the emotions that come with, yeah. What if all these little steps don't add up or how to stay present, even though things are going off the rails 

Christina: so much to unpack. I'm so excited to talk with you today.

Obviously you are with an environmental organization and I think that. [00:07:00] Most of us are aware of the fact that nature can have an incredibly positive impact on our lives. Most of my listeners would probably be considered digital urbanites. People that have either grown up with digital or their lives are primarily, spent in digital space and they live in urban centers.

My question is, what are some of the benefits of nature and how can we build a nature connection into our lives? Why is that important? 

Lindsay: This sounds like a state of scarcity, right? Like how can we build more nature? And in a way, you can't not do it. You breathe air every day, you eat food.

So despite sometimes we're always hammering home, especially the environmental non-profit world about get outside and get into nature, in a way you can't escape it. And really the simplicity that I saw recently was in a cartoon that says, we have two homes. You're like the earth and your body and to the body, I would add, there's your soul, your essence, there's your spirit.

And so these are the two things that we really need [00:08:00] to take care of. We can't live without water or air or pollinators and climate regulation. Why it's so important to keep coming back to the nature, vitamin N aspect, is that we're so restless today and we're so distracted. And in that maybe going numb and distracted piece, we've done collectively and individually, a lot of damage, I think because we're not being present.

And I stay the course because I believe that humans have the capacity to be creative and kind and generous. There are a lot more tools out there today. For example, you can check out the good grief network. 

Christina: Okay. 

Lindsay: 12 step program to help you process all the things that kind of suck about being human on the planet today and how you can still remain sane and find your sort of calling and your wise action [00:09:00] of why you would wake up every day to keep ongoing. So what nature allows us to do is look for, go out today and find something that elicits awe. You know, That feeling that you get when you have just like beauty and that something just makes you feel alive. And, as you take in the fact of your individual contribution to climate change and knowing that we're entering in a really uncertain times, It's still when you make peace with that, but that's part of, your contribution.

It frees you up to invest in more beauty and more meaning making is what they would say. And so I think you need to find more practices that help you realize that there is this connection and that there's more than just you. So it could be spiritual. It doesn't have to mean you go to church, but you might find contemplative practices for meditation and mindfulness and walking or walking meditation. It could be walking meetings, but all of this can be done in nature. And when you're able to create more of a [00:10:00] stable mind, the chances are you're more likely to do less harm and not just to the planet, but also to yourself. And the piece about nature is that it takes you out of yourself.

You get to be at one with your smallness. You're out in the weather, whatever it is, the wind off the ocean, the blizzard the Northern lights, whatever that might be exposed to. And you just realize how small you are. And there's a lot of power in that. And you might also be open to realizing that life actually wants to support life. When you're out there, the birds and fish in a stream, whatever that things want to support life. And you're a part of that, and it can stop that disconnection. 

You might need to seek that out daily at first, if you're feeling lost. But finding that, that awe, and that meaning-making out there in the world is really helpful.

Christina: I think for people listening, this is not the turn they might expect in this conversation, [00:11:00] but it makes so much sense. I've just jotted a few things down about finding something that elicits awe and what you said about the stable mind and having more of a nature connection actually leads us to do less harm to the earth.

That all makes a lot of sense to me. I was just reading a book it's called Joyful. It is about the extraordinary power of simple things in our lives eliciting a lot of joy. And one of the studies that this woman Ingrid Fetell Lee, the author writes about is actually the difference between spending time in a park versus spending time in a bio-diverse park.

And the sounds of the birds. The living creatures within a more bio-diverse park versus, you know what I might consider a standard Toronto park, down my street at the end of the block. And being more aware of how that nature is affecting us, at least in my life causes a craving within me for more of that experience.

And then I'm [00:12:00] aware of the fact that, oh, I live near the Humber valley. There are people doing incredible work around protecting that space. What can I do? It's such an important part of my family's life. Like all of those connections together, having an impact on the way that we live and choose how we're gonna engage in the world.

I mentioned at the start that your work is more than just about nature. It's about human nature and human flourishing. Helping people show up fully in their lives and their relationships. In our sort of exploratory call before this interview, you shared some examples about, teaching people, how to host a block party or teaching people how to have a courageous conversation, which I just love.

Why is this piece of your work important to you and how does that connect to the mandate of the Suzuki Foundation? 

Lindsay: These are things that I have slowly realized over time. You can't disconnect. So I have a zoology degree and when I was 19, I wanted to work in the bush. I was catching and tagging weasels, and I thought that was the best job ever.

I [00:13:00] was in the middle of nowhere. 

Where are weasels? Where do weasels live? 

In northern Alberta. I was a grad student, that was looking at the impacts of logging on habitat and animals like the weasel. And I remember thinking, oh, I just, I never want to sit at a desk. I don't want to be at a cubicle. I don't want to deal with people.

I want to be out in nature. And people were very frustrating to me. And as I was sitting in many a cut block, um, which was, you know, feeding the paper I was writing on and, you know, the toilet paper I was using daily and all these things, I start to realize that, oh my God, It's about people.

This is all about people. I'm going to have to work with people. And as I started to come into that and realized again, that it was about relationships and so much power from being in relationship with others. And that's why I'll talk more about why the block party is relevant. And then in the last few years it's been, oh, this is about a relationship with myself [00:14:00] as well about this inner work and nourishing and garden inside of me, that needs to be tended to not just so you can stay the course as being someone who's in the environmental field.

And like these, the times right now are really crushing to the human spirit. So how do we persevere and feel energized when things are often so depressing. 

So what the foundation is really looking at is definitely empowering people in place would be one bucket of our work. And I find it completely energizing to collaborate, connect, and train leaders across Canada to, to help people hold up sort of a mirror and see their own personal capacities and gifts and wisdom and skills.

You don't have to work for an environmental non-profit to make a more positive impact, but there are places within your own work with your own family and life. You can claim leadership and take a stand for something. There's an argument that people no longer stand for anything. [00:15:00] And to persevere. The beauty of it all, even when you find yourself working with people is you don't have to fix them and you don't have to know all the answers, which is really freeing. So if you think about it what came to me was that fixing is a form of aggression and it's more about making peace with all those parts of yourself. So none of this that I work on when I'm training environmental leaders is about becoming a better person.

It's about making peace with all the realities of what is. And Parker Palmer, a great author and thinker would say, it's about creating space for the human soul to show up. And those are really lovely spaces. I like to create with queen of green book club, and I've done, coached people who then green families and their neighborhoods.

And really a lot of it is just holding up a mirror because what I've found is that the solutions are within people already. You just help them realize what they're capable of. How they can get there is by making space for some of the sadness, the defeat, [00:16:00] the joy, and the anguish that comes with being present in yeah.

Reading about and learning about the wildfires and the sixth mass extinction and the insect apocalypse and flame retardants. And before your baby's even born, they're full of teflon and pesticides and lead, which there's no safe level of lead, which affects like you, this is all really crazy stuff.

And when you have places to talk about these things and share your fears from there, you can get a little more courage and a little more clarity has been my experience. 

Christina: I love that about empowering people in place. I think that our technologies, I know that our technologies are constantly calling us out of place, out of a sense of being embodied, physically being in a space but also mentally not existing in one single space are we, you know, obviously there's all the arguments about multitasking and is it a fallacy? But yeah, the hyper [00:17:00] distractedness that we have in our day-to-day lives, and I love that you're doing the work of teaching people very difficult things. Like having a courageous conversation is not an easy thing to do. That's why it's called a courageous conversation. In the work that I do, I speak like you do with, media outlets. And I sometimes come across studies that I've never heard of before. One of them was about a year and a half ago where women's health was talking to me about FOGO: the fear of going out. So an increase in social anxiety with people because they're so used to A) controlling everything in terms of their online presence, right? Our online environments are controlled, the world, and people like you were saying, people are so difficult. Like the world and people are intrinsically unpredictable.

And so there's this fear of actually physically going out in the world because it's, so you don't know what's going to happen. You don't know how people are gonna respond to you, all these things. So the work of learning how to have a courageous conversation is a really big deal. How do you do that? How do you teach people how to do things like that?

Lindsay: It's interesting. [00:18:00] I'm just like observing in my own body as we've been speaking, when we address the last question about being in nature and like how to be connected and experience awe, I thought back to what I was going to say was these things last a really long time. So that walk in nature, especially like you say, in a bio-diverse park.

I was recalling the first time I saw a wolf. And the only time I've seen a real wolf up in Northern Alberta, and it still gives me shivers up my spine and I can picture it. And just to be in awe of that experience. And as you're recalling giving the example of this woman who is a reflection of many that are scared of going outside and in the world, because of all the things that they might be triggered by and all the realizations and the fears that they have, that also brought something up in my own body, which was a real different kind of shiver of a real sadness of a loss of people not being able to have the full human experience and how sad is that we what's needed more now [00:19:00] than ever is that we know where we're going and what's required and we're sort of really stuck and really scared. 

So that piece about having the block party and courageous conversations, what I've learned in my, through my queen of green audience, because I do manage all of my social media handles and I've become to know my audience quite well.

As when I've polled, you want to have, for Lindsay's next article, would you like to hear about the next, the five green tips for the holidays or how to have a courageous conversation? And they poll equally. People are still genuinely interested in those, yeah, those simple steps, because I think that's what gets you through the day-to-day of what you can do.

And also people are willing to step into this unknown space and they're tired of not getting anywhere, maybe with their relatives. They're getting frustrated with how they get stuck and how they get reactive. And it's really about slowing down and paying more attention and [00:20:00] creating this stable mind.

So again, I said, it's not about becoming a better person, but what triggers you in a conversation or in a news story and noticing that and what that's about, and just even paying attention to how it feels. And that can be a real gift.

Christina: That dovetails very nicely into my next question. Caring about all of our environments requires slowing down and paying attention. What has our culture is relentless pursuit of speed and consumption done to our environment, and what can we do to turn the tide? And I'm thinking specifically right now, the example that I try to do in my own life, it's just such a tiny step I feel, not upgrading my smartphone every year, actually not upgrading it for years and years, but yeah, the consumption and push for the newest technology, the newest newfangled thing. This is a thing that you guys at the foundation are, I'm sure [00:21:00] constantly thinking about. What are steps that we can start taking to stop moving in this direction?

Lindsay: And I'd like to take that even a little bit deeper.

So yeah, the consumption is one thing. And also think about all the places that you're doing the consuming. So yeah, the online consumption about how restless and distracted you can become. Like how much time are we actually wasting online, even jumping around from article to article and which causes us then to withdraw from the real world and what's happening. And so I'm been on a campaign to like, let's restore thinking. And I went to a talk about Buddhism and the environment. I'm always really curious about different spiritual lenses on what are the tips for yeah, anytime there's something about, "and the environment."

And I went to this talk. The monk that had come from Tibet had said his, he talked about a lot of things and in the end he said, we just need to create a stable mind. Which sounds very, they're talking about meditation and [00:22:00] in order to do less harm. You won't be demanding that next smartphone, or maybe even like that electric car, or maybe there's another solution.

But creating that stable mind to do a lot less harm to ourselves and to all the demands that we place on the world in order to feed our needs. Another really, it sounds very simple. It's very hard to do, and I've been practicing for a few years now, and this really applies to your time online as well, but how can you not add any more confusion or aggression to the world?

So in anything you post or any comments on anyone's feed, how can you reduce confusion, not make anything worse and not come from a place of aggression. And that can be passive-aggressive, that can be defensiveness, it can come in a lot of different ways. It's not just saying you're ignorant or I disagree.

And the two weapons that I've been training, as a warrior for the human spirit- that's a training that I took with Margaret Wheatley back in [00:23:00] 2015, and I continue to do it. We talked about the weapons of any warrior in lots of different cultures is to use compassion and insight. And so I'm seeing just overall a lot of aggression, confusion, and fear in social media feeds like in people's personal feeds.

I think of a really quick example of someone posted a picture of them at it was a woman's March or a climate March climate justice March in Washington, DC recently. And she was upset because someone had commented on her photo saying this was on Instagram, I think that she looked too sexy for such a serious issue.

So the person was commenting on what came across to this individual and the person who had the photo taken, who shared the photo, said, how dare she? I was there, I'm a PhD. And this, and that. Got really obviously upset and then attacked the other [00:24:00] person or went onto their feed to see what kind of picture, who is this person and started to figure out different tactics of why th at person was irrelevant posted in their own feed about this ridiculous comment that they got from this ignorant bystander.

And what I saw was first of all, alot of sadness and aggression. And I thought, what would be the compassionate, insightful response? What's the alternative. And when you looked at who the person was that commented on the article in her Instagram feed, she had her own photos that maybe some people would qualify as sexy or, done up or whatever the judgment would be. And so I could only see that it was someone else mirroring. We can't control what anyone else thinks. It's only their own stuff they're projecting on us. The wise response might've been well, a not to weigh in at all and just to realize that was someone else's own thing.

And the compassion I felt was for [00:25:00] the one who posted the attack was she's probably experienced this herself. She saw it in someone else because she's been on the receiving end of not being validated, not being heard, being dismissed because maybe she's posted a picture that showed, I don't know, her own beauty or something, which the n ,culturally we've been taught you're, maybe you're either smart or you're pretty, you can't be both. Or you can't have both anyways, that's a whole nother thing. Yeah. 

And just realizing that this was, something that the other person had, that was their own stuff that was coming up. So really just looking at where is your response coming from? What's your own fears. And what's your, it's all of our own stuff of where you're feeling scared, where you're holding on to, and what's really motivating you.

And the invitation is not to stick to our day to day distracted routine. Because you get numb, and when you're numb, you're disconnected to yourself, other people in the world around you. And so it is good [00:26:00] to be an active participant in the human experience. And I'll share 10 tips at the end of what that looks like.

Christina: Awesome. 

Lindsay: Yeah, but just being really mindful about no more confusion or aggression, you'll be surprised actually what you can say or do.

Christina: Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I definitely wrote that down in terms of meeting confusion and aggression with compassionate insight, making a choice to not add to the confusion and aggression online, but when it is there, because it will be there, to meet that with compassion and insight.

So Margaret Wheatley, who you referred to and you've, you introduced me to, one of your mentors described social media, or has described social media as quote, swimming with sharks. I think you'd, maybe you told me that, what do you say to that?

And has that been your experience? And maybe we could frame it in the story of your most liked post, I don't know if that would dovetail for you and and how that was a bit of a mixed experience. 

Lindsay: So Meg will say, we may be in contact, but we're not connecting online. Yeah. In the world, overall, you might [00:29:00] get 50 texts a day and beyond, four different social media handles.

But the argument is that we're not really connecting. It's all very superficial and what's needed is that people feel they belong, and that you have value. And that her pitch is this need, can't be satisfied virtually, because popularity isn't the same as belonging. I remember my mum getting a smartphone and I warned her, I said, mum, you're just going to be looking. I'm warning you that you're going to be looking for validation that people still love you. And that you still matter to others, if someone doesn't comment on your picture or doesn't like, your photo or you're going to feel like something's or someone didn't reply to your text.

I said, you're going to find more places where you start to question, are you enough? So I said, I'm just warning you that there's some beauty. We're going to get to text. And when you're going to have to see pictures of the grandchildren, then we'll video call and all these lovely things. And it's a very confusing place as well where we're learning [00:30:00] how to relate to one another. But if you think about it, your own experience, do you find that people are more trusting than before? Are people more or less self-protective? Are you seeing that people are more willing to go the extra mile for one another?

And the argument is that social media is taking us down this path of individualism. You're building a brand, right? They're constantly being asked about what movies you liked, what books you are reading, what your opinion on things and less about life's meaning and purpose, but you're becoming more and more isolated and people are definitely more stressed and experiencing definitely stronger emotions on the whole gamut.

In my experience, I'm seeing people are really exhausted in the environment movement. In particular, people are exhausted and feeling less effective than ever. And what we really need is to yes, step away from some of these places that are demanding our attention and whether you like something and to comment on something and to share what you're [00:31:00] doing and actually that humans need more intimacy, time to think, the ability to listen, listening skills are really helpful and to be present. 

So one story that I was had on my queen green social media post was I was going to post a, I did post an article, a picture about food waste. It was 25% off this organic chocolate milk and a glass jug.

And I want to share with my Facebook audience that I'm shopping to reduce food waste. So something that was going to be poured out, I buy it and save money, which is awesome. And. And what happened was and the context is it's like Thanksgiving, I'm at the Thanksgiving dinner table with my family, trying not to work, but obviously working and I posted this picture and said, here's a way to be mindful about food waste, shop smarter and pick things that are about to expire, going off, and save money.

And what quickly started to unfurl on my phone that I think I must've had [00:32:00] in my lap at the dinner table. I was getting these ding ding, and buzzing and sounds and everything. And I started to read the comments and people, the vegans had come out swinging and they were pissed. They were commenting about, why are you drinking milk? This is, torture for cows. And this is horrible. And how, I can't believe that you're suggesting that people drink dairy and the carbon footprint. And people were really angry. And my initial reaction, this is post warrior for the human spirit training. 

And my initial reaction was, and Facebook is telling me, would you like to boost this post? This is your most engaged post in like forever. And I'm thinking, I just want it to go away. This is making me very uncomfortable. This wasn't the intention of what I wanted to do. It's making me feel bad. And I'm uncomfortable. And I just want to delete this. Like I just, I can end this right now. I'll go in the back end and I'm just going to delete it.

[00:33:00] And I decided to sit there a little bit longer. For one thing, I was trying to be somewhat present at my Thanksgiving dinner. And I thought, what is really when I paused, I thought, what is really going on here? What is the conversation that needs to happen? I thought we were talking about food waste, but that's actually not what people here on my page have come to, that's not what's coming up for people. And given that it was Thanksgiving, I started to think about what it would be like to be a vegan on Thanksgiving. I've been vegetarian since I was 16. And my family are cattle farmers, cattle, ranchers, big time farmers. So that was always a challenge. And I thought what's really going on here.

So there, I got it down to two things. I decided that they were really upset that I was, they thought I was promoting, and I guess I, was mentioning that I I bought this dairy consumption piece and veganism was very near and dear to their heart and a big thing that they've committed to for their environmental footprint and way [00:34:00] of life.

And the second thing that I thought was happening was they must've thought that there was that post had them realize my identity came up in their faces as not someone who they thought I was. I've never said I was vegan, and I cook a lot of vegan things, but I'm not vegan. And I thought that my identity came up against that, and they're angry because maybe what they thought was true about me or this person they were following and holding in a certain light is, was wrong. And that was upsetting to them as well. So what I decided to do was instead of deleting that post, I let it play out a few more minutes.

And the next thing I asked was "what is the hardest thing about being vegan?" because I felt like that was the conversation that needed to happen. And I was also mindful that my entire queen of green audience is not vegan. It's not a campaign we run, the David Suzuki foundation. David Suzuki, nor I are vegan.

And I thought they were looking very extremist and very angry. [00:35:00] And I thought, veganism is a really great thing for many reasons, but they're not making it look very appealing. They're looking like very angry intolerant people. So I thought I'm going to give them another chance to open up and maybe be heard in a different way.

So I asked you, what's the hardest thing about being vegan and right away, I had all these comments about people talking about being in families where people don't get it and, trying to shop smarter and people actually saying how much they appreciated that I took the conversation that way.

And you could see how quickly it was all deflated and people were actually found a space. So these kind of deeper engagements, they can happen online. But definitely today, I think if you think of your own personal feed, miscommunication has become the norm, has it not? 

Christina: Yep. 

Lindsay: Think of all the times you've posted or shared an article and people you might feel attacked or people take it a certain way, or you have to write then five more posts or emails to explain what you meant by the first thing that seemed to care.

This is um, this is the nature of the trap of the [00:36:00] world online and why I think it was called, swimming with sharks is it's a dangerous place a lot of times. 

Christina: Yeah, it can be. I'm thinking about a lot of things. One of the first things circling right back to the beginning of what you were saying about social media and Meg Wheatley's perspective on it.

Just the fact that it is such an individualistic approach and that it's breeding just this extreme individualism. And I think that's been the background for me, but you really brought it into the forefront. That is such a massive problem. I think often of the question, who do I belong to?

Who are the people that I belong to locally, in my community, like my real relationships, but this focus of social media is not about who we belong to, it's about how we identify ourselves individually. And yeah, it might be in relation to other social groups, but it's still the focus on the individual person.

And there's just so much around that. I love your story so much about the vegan, you put into [00:37:00] practice exactly what you're talking about, the confusion and the aggression that was playing out. You met it with compassion. It was a really compassionate question to ask. How is this hard for you?

And just the fact that Facebook wanted you to boost it, right? Like that just embodies all of the problems at play in the social media space I feel.

I'd like to move into a place of closing and this might open up an opportunity to talk again in the future, but you have developed a list of 10 ways we can be more mindful, I think, in the ways that we communicate online and engage online, but also just in the world. And I'd love if you would share them with us.

Lindsay: So knowing that we're, more isolated than ever, and, there's this burden to being so interconnected. So can we actually handle knowing what's happening in every corner? Maybe not. And when we're having this culture, that's built on [00:38:00] individualism I just have yeah and invitation, sort of 10 steps that you can do to maybe reduce some polarizing conversations and conflict and also combat loneliness when you realize, you know what, it's not all about you.

So the first tip would be to be less reactive. This is so freeing. So realize on social media. Do you challenge yourself to read the full article before you share it? I, too get caught up in seeing the headline and then the subheading and going, oh my God, this is totally what I'm about and sharing it.

And it's not always what you think it is. Read the full article. Before you read it- we know people skim nowadays- check the source. See what you can find out about the source. And also know that it's okay not to know. You don't have to have an opinion on everything, and find more space for silence, but no, you don't have to like everything. You don't have to vote with every single social media post that your friends or family, or that are shared with you. You [00:39:00] can bow out and not have to comment. It's okay. You might challenge number two yourself to actually phone or drop in on a friend. I mean, How sad is it? I noticed when it was really becoming pathetic, when I was texting my friends, make an appointment to phone her.

And because when I was phoning people, I would have to say, "don't worry. I'm okay. No one's died. I just wanted to talk to you for fun." People would say, are you okay? And I'm like, I'm okay. I wanted to hear your voice. And that has become so rare. And what I had to realize too was how is texting my friends or my mother or whatever during the day I'm distracting them from their own families, their own silence, their own time in nature.

So yeah, you want to send a happy birthday note and let someone know you're thinking about them, but could we be a little more mindful and tone some of the frequency of [00:40:00] that down to allow people, our own friends and family, to be less distracted. 

Christina: Or all of your message in one text, not in 12.

Lindsay: There was probably, we could make a whole handbook of how to be more conscious.

Exactly. 

Christina: Okay. I have be less reactive. Number one, I have to phone or drop in on a friend. 

Lindsay: Yeah. Like when was the last time a neighbor knocked on your door and, asked to come in for a cup of tea. Number three to listen, read or chat with someone whose opinion differs from your own. So the invitation is to stay open and curious.

This could be in your Facebook feed. There's probably people you've wondered about. Should I block them? Should I delete this friendship? If people are spreading, again, like aggression, confusion, fear, hatred, I think that's somewhere that I definitely draw the line and I'll often let the person know about what the post was or what was problematic, that I love you.

And I don't support this type of energy or whatever, but it's good to have to hear and be exposed to other [00:41:00] opinions other than just becoming a lazy bunch of group thinkers. 

Christina: You're not suggesting unfollowing because you disagree. You're suggesting you would unfollow. If someone is aligned...

Lindsay: if they were really spreading hate, that would be something that I think would be hard to get behind for sure and doesn't feed your soul at all. 

Number four would be to be less distracted. So what kind of guidelines can you set up with yourself rules with yourself about, yeah, not texting for one day or phone rules, no phones at the dinner table to do one thing at a time as opposed to multitasking and to set boundaries and say "no" more.

Christina: Great. 

Lindsay: And you don't need an excuse, you don't need a reason to say no, you can just say no. 

Okay, this is one I really like number five: don't do personal business in public spaces. When was the last time you saw somebody making out in a park on a bus bench? You don't see people making out anymore! I remember seeing [00:42:00] maybe it was a bunch of teenagers ,I don't know. I'm getting older how old they were. And I remember how struck how odd it was that I saw people sitting in a park or on a bench and kissing and being intimate. And I thought, oh my God, why is this seems so bizarre. It's become so rare. You instead, we are exposed to someone talking to their lawyer about their child custody suit on the bus seat next to you.

So think about what that is for you. When do you become busy and tune inward in your phone and social media? Could you actually smile at someone in the bus line or engage your cashier in a different way and not reach for your phone. Forget your phone at home for a day. It's completely different experience of your day.

Number six, share less. So this goes on social media, like share less photos, share less updates, in order to be more present and mindful think about what are those things you can keep more to yourself. Let's keep more to ourselves and actually enjoy the experience. So you didn't get the video of your baby's first steps.

So you didn't get that sunset picture. But are you [00:43:00] really loosing? Have you really lost out on anything, or is there a gift in being more present in the actual experience instead of having that image or video of the thing.

 Number 7, find ways to get together. So we need each other and we need time for comfort to console each other, support our community.

This could be like joining a book club or starting a book club. It's starting that, that block party and bringing back family games nights and neighborhood. I used to have a soup club when I was at the bigger office in Vancouver. Every Wednesday was soup club and we had 10 plus members and every 10 weeks.

You made a soup for everybody. You got a free lunch and you got to talk and eat with people that you might not otherwise have had the opportunity to and get away and not eat at your desk. Number eight, need your neighbors, more. 

So is that, borrowing tools, asking for babysitting help, offering to shovel someone's walkway or mow their lawn. Like [00:44:00] we can actually become more grounded in community and turn to one another. And I started something really simple in my neighborhood of a welcome basket. Remember the welcome wagon? You used to get a basket of things.

So I invited a handful of my neighbors that I'm close with when I saw a new family moving in. And I said, would you guys like to contribute something? I'll collect the items. I collected apple sauce and apple cider, a bottle of wine. I had some homemade soap and I delivered this welcome basket. And I had each neighbor who contributed a little item to write a note about what's their favorite thing about living here. The beach access, the forest trails, the owls. Whatever that was. And it was a great way, that will keep paying it forward. And the neighbors thought it was most fabulous thing and they felt and now they had a place to start to have conversations with others. 

Number nine, this is a little bit different: prepare for loneliness to be ignored, dismissed, criticize, and maybe even mocked.

So when you're doing something, that I would say [00:45:00] these things have now become counter culture. You might feel a bit lonely at first because people might look at you funny and not know what you're talking about. And and so I just invite you to persevere and stick with it, but don't be surprised when yeah, you're dismissed or criticized. It's often when you think, who am I to do. That you're onto something I find. 

Christina: I like that a lot. 

Lindsay: Number 10 is, to get outside again, just finding places to experience and realize that life wants to support life. The world is going to look different. The planet is definitely undergoing a death and rebirth cycle as will, human civilization as well.

And how will you show up and what role do you want to play? 

Christina: Amazing. Lindsay, thank you so much. So much food for thought. I feel like I'm going to be unpacking this for a while, and I think anyone who's listening today is going to be unpacking these things for awhile. Just thank you for your [00:46:00] work and thank you so much for being with me today.

Lindsay: You're welcome.